Viz and their fans? (Also: banning of Metropolisforever)

[cmoon]

Hmmm, I was catching up on my Berserk manga and found the anime mispriced at gamestop for $10 (good lord, 6 discs for $10, score!) Its easy to look at this as total exploitation (porn + voilence), even though in truth it is doing no more than Conan did in its age (also exploitational I suppose.)

Yet what really got me going through the anime (especially near the end), is how far it escaped the bounds of that medium and really got at some other feelings and even became quite artistic. It was actually hard not to be unmoved by it, even while being mired within a foundation of what is honestly nothing more than modern day pulp. Of course, the funny thing is how much I love the pulp of the golden age. Give me more Lovecraft, Burroughs and Howard! That said, it makes me wonder if there is something buried within more of these completely exploitational works. Thinking on Lovecraft (who admittedly, never stooped as low as some of his bretheren), Mountains of Madness still remains untouched in the literary world, having absolutely no parallel. I wonder if there aren't some manga that we're all writing off as junk that maybe have something completely amazing buried in it somewhere.

Let's not forget how really, really good Lone Wolf and Cub gets, even if it is really nothing more than samurai pulp. You can make art out of a big pile of bodies!!!

[Metropolisforever]

Yes, the violence + porno stuff usually has other things in it.

Incredibly misogynistic anime, like Shusaku and Night Shift Nurses can be viewed in many different ways...

They can also have a decent plot.

[Metropolisforever]

The fye stores are OBSESSED with violence and porno!!!

No wonder anime and anime fans have a bad name in the US!!!

Then, there's always that perverted fanboy, who rushes out to buy the Cool Devices box-set, the day it comes out in America.

[Huscheli]

[Kevin]

[putrocca]

Having seen Trinity Blood it definitely falls, along with things like Hellsing, Gantz, Speed Grapher, Lone Wolf and Cub and (for that matter) Sin City or Kill Bill, in that zone of things which are violent but still have many other merits, so each individual must decide whether or not to watch it based on their own tastes. Some people like them, some people don't, but certainly none of them are pure sex and violence without other things. On the other hand, some anime (and some live action things) ARE pure sex and violence, and this is just as true of non-hentai series as of hentai series, since there are hentai with decent plotlines and there are non-hentai without.

Some people I know watch hentai because it's funny rather than for the perversion, in the same spirit as watching MST3K, things so bad they become entertaining for their badness. Others I know avoid hentai like the plague. I don't personally know anyone who watches it for what one might call its intended purpose, but those sorts of fans certainly exist as well. This is just as true of American and European live action films and TV as it is of Anime.

I agree with Kevin, though, that the proportion of anime fans who aren't in it for the sex and violence is growing, especially in areas where there is a larger anime community, like college towns and cities with very active clubs or conventions, and this is a happy thing. The reputation of anime in the US as being porn is also starting to fade a bit, thanks to the more mainstreem success of films like Spirited Away, to the shows on cable like Inuyasha and Pokemon which anyone can see in five minutes aren't porn, and most of all to anime fans who talk to non-fans about anime and show them the many different aspects of the genre. If we're going to help this process, we need to do it by putting our best face forward. When a new person asks me to tell them about anime or manga, hentai is not the first thing I bring up (or even in the top fifty), becuase I'm not interested in perpetuating the stereotype but correcting it. If people ask about it I answer honestly, and once they've learned about other more important elements of anime I certainly don't hide the presence of the 18+ stuff, but just as someone trying to introduce a new person to musicals isn't going to show them the Rocky Horror Picture Show as the first thing, I'm not going to start off a new otaku with Legend of the Overfiend, or for that matter with Belladonna or Cleopatra.

At this point, in my convention experience, the hentai (and other forms of adult anime, remember that hentai is only one genre, there is also yaoi, yuri, ekhe (I can never remember how to spell that in English) and other kinds) is only a small part of what goes on, and when it is brought up those who are most enthusiastic about discussing it are usually teen-aged fans who are excited to go *wink wink* about sallatious titles but who actually read/watch very little of it. They're excited by its existence, as teenagers tend to be excited about sex because it's new to them, but when you ask what they're actually watching it's still generally nothing more extreme than Gravitation or Yami no Matsuei. Those who do seriously watch the hentai are not the ones who tend to talk about it publicly or buy "hentai inside" t-shirts. If you do see someone in a "hentai inside" T-shirt and ask them to name their ten favorite series there'll pretty-much never be any hentai on the list because they all know there's better stuff out there.

By the way, Metropolisforever, if you are, in fact, the age you claim to be, you should not be watching Night Shift Nurses enough to be able to comment on whether or not it has a decent plot. The point of this whole discussion is that there's lots of very good anime and manga out there which is much more interesting than the 18+ stuff. There's a thread here in Offtopic where people have suggested some excellent titles you could seek out, and we'll be happy to recommend more, titles which would all be much more interesting (and fun to talk about here) than poking around online doing research about hentai which you aren't allowed to watch and probably wouldn't find very interesting if you did.

Speaking of good titles coming out, what do people think of this season's new Anime lineup? Other than the long-awaited Naruto-Shippoden (I swear when the first episode aired I could hear my friends' cries of joy clear across the ocean) I don't really know what good stuff this season is offering. Does anyone else? This last year had Death Note, and there was Ayakashi and Ouran High School Host Club, and the much-praised Melancholy of Haruhi Shuzumiya (quite original) and Mushishi, which has had extremely high ratings all around and frum the rumors may be a real new masterpiece thoguh I've only seen 1 ep so far, but what else dopeople know that's new and good?

[Metropolisforever]

You didn't even understand my posts.-_-

By the way, Huscheli and Amrith love to attack me, so it probably was just an attack.

Just because it's a shojo does not mean it can't be ultraviolent.

He rips a guy's heart out (literally), shoots a guy with a silver bullet and leaves him there to suffer and many other things.

[Metropolisforever]

Yes, I've met some "colorful" anime fans, who do watch hentai for it's "intended purpose".

Animation is a medium and anyone that thinks all anime is ultraviolent porno is an idiot.

Here are some of the successful theatrical anime from back in the day.

Akira
Ghost in the Shell
Urotsukid

[putrocca]

[Metropolisforever]

[Metropolisforever]

[putrocca]

[Karmi-Sempai]

As for me, my attempts on Viz have been failures. Well, we Black Jack fans are signing a petition but I've no idea how much we need to get before Viz would even notice. I personally wrote them a letter for republishing the manga going on about it's popularity in Japan, how significant it was for Tezuka, it's history, and most importantly, that American readers need to rely on Spanish, Italian or even Japanese manga just to know what's happening. Tezuka analysts are having such a difficult time with their appraisals because of this and I even buttered them by saying Viz would be best for the job.

I think I'm having second thoughts about sending that letter. or should I send them the same letter every month or so?

[Huscheli]

Problem is that I don't think they will give you an answer. Some girl working there will maybe just read it and toss it away after that because they know Tezuka doesn't sell well and don't want to think too much about it. ,_, maybe if they make enough profit and are in a good mood they'll publish Black jack - but that's all.

[Karmi-Sempai]