Tezuka's Robots vs., say, Asimov's (or Tezuka's views on AI)

by **cmoon** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:57 am

Jeffbert is probably your main man on this question. Mostly wanted to mention that Tezuka's robots also have robot laws akin to Asimov (you aren't imagining that), but Tezuka seems more concerned (IMO anyway) with possible allegories between the way people may view robots in the future and the social inequalities of today. Tezuka was a fan of science fiction and given how early some of Asimov's stories are, he may actually have read them.

As far as Astro having a human heart, as I recall that may be more of a 2003 thing, but honestly these elements are changed so often as Tezuka continued to reinvent the character that I don't recall off the top of my head.

I think you might enjoy some of the issues regarding robots that come up in the Phoenix series vol. 5 Resurrection. It also is being treated with much thought in the Pluto manga (which is a re-imagining of Tezuka's Greatest Robot on Earth Astro story.)

Anyway, I don't think I answered most of your questions, but I'm deferring that to Jeffbert, our resident Astroboy expert. Welcome to the forum!

by **F-Man** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:57 am

Metropolis movie and the Astro Boy manga, eh? I was just thinking on how you really ought to get these! You'll have a blast. If you want I can send you my index file listing the stories in chronological order.

The Asimov laws are definitely referenced in the manga, as well as other laws like that a robot can't go to other countries. Astro actually contributes to getting that one abolished. (Whoo!) I wonder what's the voting situation though...

I find it difficult also to tell what separates Astro from some other robots that definitely act like sentient beings. Tezuka's robots are constantly different. There's no question that some are programmed to do more basic stuff, while others are like living beings. Likewise, I find that sometimes Astro will not mind destroying some robots, and other times he has to save them from their evil masters and teach them what's right and wrong.

The one thing that seems to be different with Astro (other than being the strongest bot), is that in his very first adventure, he defied his own creator in order to do what's right. You don't truly realise the importance of that until Tenma mentions it in a much later story and see how much he gained respect for Astro since then.

by **sgupta** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:21 am

Thanks for the great responses so far!

Re Metropolis and the Astro Boy manga, yes, I'm pretty excited! I'm getting the new Dark Horse release of Volumes 1 and 2 for starters, and if I like them, may very well collect the rest of the series. (Is it not in order as is?) I'm not usually even a manga person but I just feel these will be a joy to read. (I may eventually read Pluto as well, but want to stick to the basics to start with). I'm checking out the Astro Boy Essays book too. Tezuka's mind fascinates me. To hand draw so many pages is such passion.

I've actually been getting familiar with quite a few of Tezuka's characters. (One of the best things I could have done was pick up a copy of Astro Boy: Omega Factor - that's actually a fantastic Astro story in addition to a pretty great guide to his most popular characters built right in [and one of the best games I've ever played to boot]!) I also watched a Black Jack movie, which I enjoyed, but I think I need to understand the basics (like who/what Pinoko is) before I appreciate that fully. (That's another manga I may eventually get into - lol).

Re Phoenix, interesting to note that has a robot arc as well. I'll add it to the list of things to check out. ^.^

Onto the main points, it's cool to hear there are laws and rules in there. I have noticed how Astro does treat robots a bit differently depending, and also that they seem to be somewhere on a spectrum of human-like behavior. Maybe Astro has the ability to sense where on this spectrum a certain robot is? Especially given the moral inequality theme mentioned, it makes this all robots varying greatly in ability/sentience somewhat complicated to think about. Then again, I think perhaps Tezuka's style is just different - he focused on storytelling and moral themes; the robots didn't necessarily have to be explained to the same degree as, say, Asimov would take a story and make it a complex scenario of how the three laws would realistically apply in an unanticipated situation. The robots got their poitn across symobilcally. Asimov was very technical, whereas Tezuka strikes me more as fantastical; that is, his stories seem more like epic tales with great heart and massive universe-shattering ideas than minute scientific exploration, even though there were certainly those moments.

I appreciate your insight into Astro defying his creator - following his own will is definitely something alluded to quite a bit and I think likely a core apsect of "kokoro". It ocurred to me also that Astro (and Atlas) might be unique in that he was reared as a child instead of programmed outright, which could have quite a bit to do with it as well. And maybe this was played out more in the 2003 series - I know they made some significant changes. I look forward to exploring the earlier works.

Thanks for the great discussion so far!

by **Kevin** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:34 pm

by **F-Man** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:06 pm

by **Jeffbert** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:55 am

by **sgupta** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:58 am

Thanks for the great feedback, all!

Jeffbert, interesting to hear Tezuka mentions Asimov - I had always wondered about that. Don't drive yourself nuts trying to find it, but if you happen upon it while doing other things, it'd be cool to see. Well I'm new here so not as familiar with your work as some, but from what I do know, you're very, very thorough, and I don't personally think anyone would call you the least bit unprofessional, including any touches. lol.

F-Man, thanks for the proper order. I think I'll start out reading them in the book order, then maybe go back when I read again and do it in chronological order, as I'm sure they're worth another readthrough someday. ^.^

And yeah, F-Man, I'm beginning to think you have to take Tezuka's robots as fluid and the question of how human they are is kind of a point without trying to focus too much on the details - they're just much bigger picture stories than that. A lot of my favorite fantasy/sci-fi is like that - so big and fun and fantastic you kind of have to invent your own continuity as you go along because the creators don't want to be constrained, which can . (Doctor Who, another favorite, for example, is a bit like that - there are certain continuity problems along the way that they either poke fun at today or just kinda make up a way around them as they go [or let the viewer do it]). And also, much is left unsaid/unexplained, which adds an air of mystery.)

by **Kevin** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:37 pm

by **Jeffbert** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:40 am

by **Kevin** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:44 am

by **Jeffbert** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:05 am

by **Kevin** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:40 pm

by **Jeffbert** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:36 pm

Tezuka's Robots vs., say, Asimov's (or Tezuka's views on AI)

Tezuka's Robots vs., say, Asimov's (or Tezuka's views on AI)

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