The Haunted Ship, fundamental differences between 1963/2003

[Kevin]

[strobe_z]

[Jeffbert]

[Kevin]

[Jeffbert]

[Kevin]

thank you for that info ^_^

[cmoon]

[Jeffbert]

Speaking of hearts, the

Zephyrs baseball team had a robot pitcher, who was banned for the lack of a heartbeat. Having a pump installed, he was reinstated as pitcher; however, the confusion between the physical and metaphorical heart resulted in him lacking the 'heart' to strike out those batters, & the Zephyrs soon became extinct.

So, why did I mention that? Good question!

Anyway, with respect to robots, hearts are obviously metaphoric references to human qualities such as compassion, love, & other emotions, including fear. However, just because a given robot lacks one or more of those qualities, does not mean that the robot is heartless.

Souls, are a different matter, though. In the Bible, 'soul' really means 'breath' & hence, life. However, when the Israelis lost their sovereignity, the promised land was no longer much of an attraction, & so, they eventually adopted a belief in life after death, paradise, etc. "Hell' likewise was redefined. Its original meaning was "the grave" & it was a metaphor for burial in the ground. The Hebrew words were entirely different, the original word meant just that. However, they eventually used "gehenna," which meant "the valley of the son of Hinnom" where child sacrifices were offered because trash was burned and fear of legal reprisals was minimal because of the stench of the burning trash.

[Kevin]

IN response to cmoon--

I think a lot of the issue here is you seem to be confusing what had been said with what I was saying.

1. The term soul is applicable, since the term used in japanese concerning Astro Boy is Kokoro. Kokoro means soul. There's no way to mis interpret what was being said.

2. Doctor Elefun was pretty explanatory about Astro about fear and that it's all due to having a human heart. The episode shows Uran/Zoran walking around a construction site with absolutely no fear about being crushed or falling down. Astro Boy with a "human heart" is shown as having fear she will die. They say specifically in this episode that his having fear she will die is due to having a human heart. If he didn't have have a human heart then he wouldn't any concern or fear that she would die or get injured.

This is a direct contradiction to many many Astro Boy manga, other anime episodes of the time, and future anime.

This episode makes no sense.

What jeffbert said I think makes sense: Tezuka had a tendency to change things on a whim for the purpose of plot/story.

Keeping this in mind, I think it means Tezuka was flexible, and because he was flexible, that to me lends credibility to what the 2003 astro boy accomplished. As it concentrated on spreading the ideas and ideals of Tezuka, albeit a bit updated, I think it did him and Astro a service
^_^ -_^ ^_^



-Jeffbert-

that is very interesting post ty ^_^

[cmoon]

The problem is that too much flexibility turns into inconsistency.

And you may well be right that I am misunderstanding you. I think there are several Astro episodes where he feels no fear. Is this what you have an issue with or is it that Astro may not feel other emotions that we typically associate with the phrase 'have a heart'?

In all cases Astro appears to have at least some human emotions, which is of course what we want. I do not think having fear is necessitated.

Again, the 'having a human heart' was always just an analogy. Astro has no organic parts--so we must narrow down what is actually meant in that episode by saying he has no 'heart' since clearly he never has had nor ever will have a human heart.

Kokoro? Is that a 2003 thing like the 'omega factor'?

Jeffbert> I feel like you already said what I've said in this post, only better

[Ash]

Not really wanting to mingle in the discussion, but to translate kokoro / 心 to soul is somewhat to broad.

心 is the kanji for the heart, and kokoro is one of the kun readings for the kanji. Kokoro is used to refer to the metaphorical heart and more usually to traits like cmoon explained.

If the makers really wanted to refer to a real soul (in the usual sense), tamashii / 魂 would be the logical choice.

Nobody would claim Astro has no heart (compassion), but to have a soul is a step further and that would explain they used kokoro instead of tamashii.

[Jeffbert]

cmoon: thanks for the compliment; I am glad the $20K+ I still owe for college did me some good.

Kevin: Thanks.

[cmoon]

[Kevin]

[Jeffbert]