Leo/Kimba essay

[cmoon]

[Joe_Shimamura]

[cmoon]

[Jeffbert]

[cmoon]

Short version: Most of the similarities are visual as Lion King was a homage to Kimba. I do not entirely believe the artists actually were familiar with Jungle Emperor. Similarities with plot are superficial at most. Like saying that Ribsy and White Fang are the same story because they are both about dogs (or is it Call of the Wild that's about a dog--I hardly remember now). Animation parallels abound, connections to Tezuka's themes do not.


Long version: I don't really feel a need to consult outside sources when having my own opinion--and while that comes off as rather sassy, I'll stand to any free thinker keeping their opinions just that.

That said, there ARE certainly similarities, but it seem far too easy to get caught up in the similarities that are superficial and miss the gross dissimilarities between the two works.

The Lion King is first and foremost an adaptation of Shakespeare, and while we can whine and moan as much as we want to, it bares nothing more than a superficial similarity to Jungle Emperor. It you want, I can digress along this topic at length, but suffice it be said that Lion King is very much a simplistic 'reclaim your own kingdom' sort of tale, with a bit of 'coming of age' story thrown in to the mix.

Jungle Emperor however is something very much different. Here we have a sense of unfinished destiny, interdependence, the entire circle of life (not the rubbish Disney was singing about) and also the very early form of what would become the phoenix premise--namely, that societies will over time evolve, and we can imagine them evolving toward a higher, even more spiritual goal. It of course comes about that it is very likely such societies will self destruct, or the base instincts which we all possess will lead us to ruin, leaving society itself in decay.

To suggest these themes--those which make up the very corner stone of Leo--are present in Lion King, is purely rubbish. Superficially (and artistically) the connection is very real; but I am afraid the story telling department has fallen far shy of then intended target and instead we have Shakespeare with lions (not a bad thing after all, really.)

If you'd rather take Fred's view on it, you are certainly more than welcome. He is an expert after all, and I don't doubt that he has some insight I haven't gleaned from reading and viewing all the episodes. That said, he must be a very good reader if he sees proto-phoenix in The Lion King, and I dare say that no amount of writing on his part will ever convince me that such a thing is actually present in what is in all counts a fairly mainstream movie that does not, in a single moment of its celluloid existence cause me to think or question or even feel alive in the same way that Jungle Emperor does.

Rather I'd say that Lion King is little more than commercial fodder, and while people are (correctly) right to point out the homage, they are absolutely incorrect in stating that Lion King is a reiteration of the themes present in Jungle Emperor. I would strongly recommend that by whatever means necessary, people actually go about reading Jungle Emperor. Here is where the evidence lies; here is where we find the sad joke about Lion King being a remake of Jungle Emperor.

I look forward to reading what Fred has to say, but I suspect, as I found in most of my research, that the parallels lie in animation, not in story telling. That said, despite my sassing off, I both look forward to and dread being shown wrong by Fred's essays. Look forward to because I enjoy the intellectual stimulation, but dread because if the case can actually be made that Lion King is a remake of Jungle Emperor, it must certainly be one of the worst adaptations of all time.

[Kevin]

good speech cmoon ^_^

[Jeffbert]

While the similarities may be no more than superficial, they are still there. From the various characters to other visual elements, they are glaring at those who are familiar with Tezuka's Jungle Emperor. Even if the stories were completely different, these similarities still exist. People would immediately see that the baboons, birds, evil lions, and hyenas were similar to Tezuka's characters.

Furthermore, Tezuka's characters are themselves unique creations, & although the supporting characters in Jungle Emperor are no where near as prominent as Lamp or BJ, they are T's creations.

I agree that for Schodt to presume that somebody in the creative staff of Lion King had seen Kimba, & drew inspiration from it, may be far-fetched; however, it is even more far-fetched to presume that the similarities are entirely coincidental.

[Kevin]

[cmoon]

[Jeffbert]

[cmoon]

[putrocca]

I've been remiss in my Tezuka duties lately (swamped with other duties) so I'm afraid I still haven't managed to find time to read this. I promise I will someday, though, hopefully by the end of march.

Meanwhile, please let me know by PM when you produce a typo-free version and I'll post it to the essays section of the main site right away.

[cmoon]

I think we're both equally remiss.

Sorry, real life is just slaying me right now. New brilliant idea: Since kids are failing at school it must be because teachers aren't teaching them. Dock their pay! Next person who wants to gripe about the education system better actually attach a concrete idea to it that can fix absenteeism, social promotion (IE kids in the 10th grade who can't read), and the dysfunctional home lives that most of these kids have. Speaking of which, why aren't parents being held accountable for any of this? Blah!

Anyway, yes, I need to take care of the Leo thing. I feel it would help make the case to Vertical that they should consider it.

[Recca_Phoenix]

Have to read the whole thing when I get a chance

Aside from depictions of Africans, I think the relations between the three racial/national groups in the series are quite interesting, as well as gender relations.

And let's not forget the many issues surrounding what is "civilized" - Leo's return wearing pants and bringing "order" really reminded me of Babar. Babar seems to me to be supportive of French colonialism in Africa, and could very well be a metaphor. Do you think Tezuka was trying to assert a similar belief? That was the only part of Leo that bothered me - him trying to impose this "civilized" order on the jungle.

As for the Lion King, my take is:
the stories are totally different even though the character structure and models are the same. The same parallels can be seen in Disney's Aladdin and the original cut of The Thief and the Cobbler **check out the real film!**: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6719734101
And less clearly-defined: people say Atlantis borrowed from Nadia:The Secret of Blue Water and Miyazaki's Laputa: Castle of the Sky. I agree somewhat with both.
In both cases, I think it was done as more of an homage.
As much as I dislike it, this is nothing new....filmmakers do it all the time, and sometimes they rip off other works even more so than Disney has. Let's not forget those fake disney movies they used to sell in the drugstore candy aisle for 5 bucks.
In the case of both Lion King and Aladdin, both are great films regardless of whether they were ripped off or not, even taking into account that elements of them were "borrowed" from other works. I just think more people should know where the stuff came from. It's like how Alan Moore fans feel about the films of his comics - they don't even come close to the greatness of the originals, yet more people have seen the movies.

Sorry for ranting there 0_0;;;

[cmoon]

I actually don't agree with the whole 'pants' thing having to do with colonization. Leo becomes 'humanized', and later on realizes that he can't keep being a human being and has to be an animal, getting rid of the pants.

To be honest, I think the pants are just a cutesy thing at first to make Leo more like Mickey Mouse, but later on they remind Leo that he can't really belong wholly to the world of man or the world of the wild, and he has to forge his own way, create his own kingdom, etc.

Reading too deep into Leo regarding things like race, etc. really bothers me. This is an EXTREMELY early comic for Tezuka and I feel that these were considered exciting settings and that kids would enjoy reading about a Tarzan-like setting. The depth that exists come from Leo himself and his attempt to bridge the world of humans and the wild.

Regarding the Lion King; I absolutely agree. Lion King and Jungle Emperor are radically different stories that are only similar in the most superficial sort of ways. I think it is really clear that Lion King is meant as a homage, but I do not think it offers any real further insight into Jungle Emperor.